I wonder what generation that cassette is? Mark Coyle's sleeve notes for the replica Live Demonstration cassette indicate that the only copies of copies survive, and that the songs recorded at Liverpool were mixed down to cassette.
I would love to know if the Real People kept all the multitracks for these sessions, which would probably be on quarter-inch tape. The white label mix of Columbia and the alt mix of Married with Children (on the DM reissue) are both mixed down to professional formats, and show that the recordings have scope to sound a lot better than the cassette versions.
Hey brother, not sure which generation tape that is...but like schorman said, I do own an original Live Demonstration with clear handwritten tape A/B side labels in Noel's hand. My cassette is a D46 TDK.
I wonder what generation that cassette is? Mark Coyle's sleeve notes for the replica Live Demonstration cassette indicate that the only copies of copies survive, and that the songs recorded at Liverpool were mixed down to cassette.
I would love to know if the Real People kept all the multitracks for these sessions, which would probably be on quarter-inch tape. The white label mix of Columbia and the alt mix of Married with Children (on the DM reissue) are both mixed down to professional formats, and show that the recordings have scope to sound a lot better than the cassette versions.
Hey brother, not sure which generation tape that is...but like schorman said, I do own an original Live Demonstration with clear handwritten tape A/B side labels in Noel's hand. My cassette is a D46 TDK.
Thanks for the info. That's an amazing item to have in your collection, a real piece of Oasis history.
I would love to know if the Real People kept all the multitracks for these sessions, which would probably be on quarter-inch tape. The white label mix of Columbia and the alt mix of Married with Children (on the DM reissue) are both mixed down to professional formats, and show that the recordings have scope to sound a lot better than the cassette versions.
I'm the same, I would love to know. I truly believe they have. I'm sure it's on the 2004 Definitely Maybe DVD documentary when one of the Griffiths' mentions they have at least the masters of Rock 'N' Roll Star. I'd have to dig it and to watch it again but I'm pretty sure.
I've nothing but respect for Tony and Chris and their part of Oasis' history. They've managed in the most part to be dignified about it all, even though Noel's 'borrowing' of their material must be pretty galling. We all know that Rockin' Chair was originally classed as a Noel Gallagher only written song, but at the time of the Masterplan album Chris Griffiths ended up with a co-writing credit. So obviously they had an issue with the track and an agreement was thrashed out with Noel before it went any further, in affect Noel admitting he had nicked at least some part of the song.
I understand Noel taking a chance and borrowing the odd lyric or melody, but when you listen to the Real People songs 'Ocean Child' and 'Feel The Pain' it's pretty clear to anyone with ears that 'Part Of The Queue' and' Don't Go Away' are not 100% completely from the imagination of Noel. He's plundered a lot from the Griffiths' as far as I'm concerned.
I wonder if the Realies have ever offered the session tapes back to the Oasis management, or maybe they are just keeping quiet about them until they get a decent offer, one that they feel would be fair to the possible injustice they might feel over lost writing credits. I'm sure I once read somewhere that they don't say much about the whole thing due to an out of court settlement relating to publishing rights. Cant remember where I read that though, and hey even if they were directly asked about it they probably wouldn't / couldn't give an answer.
For me personally now we have Mustique the 'Holy Grail' is now a mix of all the songs the Real People recorded with Oasis, taken from the multitracks. Not a massive fan of Liam's double tracked vocals, so would prefer a mix of just a single vocal but beggars can't be choosers I suppose, I wouldn't complain if we got either!! If you compare the version of 'Strange Thing' from the 2014 Definitely Maybe re-issue to the version taken from the 1992-1993 Demo tape it's obvious from the vocals alone that different mixes have been attempted from the multitracks. It's crazy to think they don't still exist to this day.
David, have you thought about contacting the Realies and asking them how much they want for them?? Maybe we could do a Kickstarter fund!! :-) I can only dream. But imagine cyrstal clear rips of 'Must Be The Music', 'Comin' On Strong', 'Lock All The Doors'.....
Hi robg1979 yeah hopefully all the masters exist. Last year I tried contacting the Realies for another interview, but unfortunately never heard anything back after the initial Q&A I did with them in 2012. It's not totally clear (due to the way I phrased the question) but I did ask them:
You mentioned in an earlier interview that you recorded around twenty songs with Oasis, from which those heard on the Live Demonstration cassette were selected; can you say what the other songs were and do the master tapes of these still exist? What format(s) were the Oasis demos recorded on and mixed down to? Chris: Yes. The Live Demonstration tape, 8 track B sides and some others whose titles we forget.
And in this earlier interview they gave to MOJO magazine (available via the Wayback Machine) Tony mentioned that:
Tony: "We recorded about 20 tunes [with Oasis]; out of them a few turned out as B-sides and a few turned out as the demo of the album tracks (later known as the Live Demonstration tape: Rock n Roll Star, Strange Thing, Bring It On Down, Fade Away, Columbia, Cloudburst, D’You Wanna Be A Spaceman, Married With Children) but we did do a load more and I think I’m the only one with the actual demos."
I presume that ref to 'the actual demos' means either the multitracks, or the final mixes on a professional format. And as you mentioned this was also touched on in Dick Carruthers' documentary on Definitely Maybe. Tony Griffiths said in the edit broadcast by Channel 4 TV that the Columbia demo sounded "wicked on the radio, considering that we only recorded it in our practice room on a shitty little eight track." He also mentioned on the extended DVD edit of the documentary that he has Rock n Roll Star on eight track.
For reference, the tracks we do have from Live Demonstration mastered from a professional format are: Columbia (White Label Demo), D'yer Wanna be a Spaceman? and the alternate mix of Married With Children (on the DM reissue). The multitracks for Columbia and Married With Children presumably survive in Oasis's own archive, as the tracking sheets (from when they dubbed the demos onto 24-track at Out of the Blue in October 1993) were on display recently at the Chasing the Sun exhibition in Manchester. The rest hopefully are in the Real People's archive.
I started trying to piece all this together for an article on my site, but haven't found the time to complete it yet. Here are some notes on the commercially-released versions of the Liverpool demos. It seems that by mid-94 they were using the cassette copies rather than going back to the multitracks, as they had done with Columbia in late '93.
Supersonic (CRESCD 176) 11th April 1994 [Track 4] Columbia (White Label Demo) Notes: This is an alternate mix to that heard on Live Demonstration. Mixed down and mastered to a professional format. Very clean stereo mix.
Shakermaker (CRESCD 182) 13th June 1994 [Track 2] D’yer Wanna Be a Spaceman? Notes: Not from a cassette source: cleanly aligned and with no hum or hiss. Unlike Columbia, it's presented in the same mix as heard on Live Demonstration though. Mark Coyle states in the liner notes for the replica cassette that both this track and Married With Children were recorded and mixed in his bedroom, and were "untouched for final production."
[Track 3] Alive (8-track demo) Notes: Mastered from a cassette, although a well-aligned one. The mix cancels down to a low-level residual signal when put out of phase. There is some cassette hiss.
Definitely Maybe (CRECD 169) 30th August 1994 [Track 11] Married with Children Notes: Mastered from a cassette, with some azimuth alignment issues. Some hiss and hum, most audible at the start.
Definitely Maybe - Chasing the Sun reissue (RKIDCD70XP) 19th May 2014 [On Disc 2, the demos of Columbia, Alive, and D’yer Wanna Be a Spaceman? are all more heavily-limited and re-EQ'd masterings of the exact same digital transfers used on the original CD releases].
[Disc 3, Track 2] Rock 'n' Roll Star (Demo). Mono. Cassette source.
Interesting analysis David, your research is as thorough and insightful as ever. Thanks for the link to the MOJO article as well, that was the one I had previously read. I always hear the tape hiss at the start of Married With Children, thought that was just me. :-)
After my post yesterday I went back and read your previous article with the Real People, I understand what you mean, they don't exactly give you a straight answer, it's more like they skirt around the subject. 'Some others whose titles we forget'?? A likely story.
Reading between the lines though I think it's pretty safe to assume they still have these tapes. Shame they didn't get back in touch, maybe they have been instructed not to talk about it any more, hence why they only gave you brief answers at the time. Would love to have heard more a more detailed explanation.
Strange really, you kind of wonder how the management plans to push the brand of Oasis in the future. The diehards know all about the Real People demos, and yeah we'd all happily pay to hear them cleaned up and mastered, but on a mass market scale would it be a good commercial decision? Probably not. But on the other hand I'll never understand why they dont offically release the stuff that has been leaked already, at least they would be making some money from it, and we would benefit from audio upgrades.
Personally I would happily pay for every last note they have in the vaults, but that's only because of my unhealthy obsession with all things Gallagher. We'll see what the future holds anyway. I hope the management do learn from the positives of the Supersonic documentary, the fan interaction with people from the forums was great. If only they could take that further and get people involved with future re-issues who have a sound knowledge of the time and the music of the period (such as yourself, and others who will always happily contribute and offer their knowledge when requested). Even going back to the Stop The Clocks EP (which came out when the band were still in existence) they still managed to class Cigarettes & Alcohol as a demo, when it's actually a 1993 radio session, and Some Might Say was listed with its unknown venue, (Club Citta, Tokyo). Poor handling from the inside. At least we'd ensure basic things like that were correct!!
But back to the topic, it's possible we have already been fed the info of a possible future release of the Real People's work with Oasis. Mark Coyle's notes in the demo tape re-issue mentions that 'the entirety of the session will probably never be heard and missing gems include the following songs: Heaven Knows, Must Be The Music, Comin' On Strong and Lock All The Doors'. That sounds like a clever advert for a future release to me, dangling a carrot. :-)
Yes, I'm intrigued by what approach will be taken on future Oasis releases, and if there will ever be a complete release of the Liverpool demos, sourced from the Realies' master tapes. If that source material is intact, it would be great to use it (assuming that the Real People and their management were up for it, and that the budget was there to have the tracks remixed).
This might be something for the 30th or 40th anniversary of Definitely Maybe. My dream on this would be to have all those demos remixed for higher fidelity, but in a way that's faithful to the balances and effects applied to the originals.
Maybe in years to come we'll have reissues of classic albums in object-based audio, which could allow the listener to make their own mix. That's could be drifting into the realms of fantasy, but the technology is there for it.
On a similar note, last year Native Instruments released a new file format for DJs, which allows them to remix using stems from the multitracks. It would be great if some Oasis tracks became available on this format... but as far as I can tell, this hasn't had widespread support from larger labels as yet.